Diving into the DSF Rhythm: A session on Django Governance

Speaker 1: Can I see a show of hands? Like anybody feels they're not that they don't have enough information about gender software formation. I see at least a few people. Okay, they're shy, shy, they're not raising their hands. Don't worry. So uh Jungle Software Foundation uh DSR uh is responsible uh like development of Django is supported by uh DSF it's an independent independent foundation uh it's uh uh nonprofit based in the US. The goal of Django Software Foundation is to promote, support, and advance its Django source project, which is Django. Supporting the

Speaker 1: of Django by sponsoring sprints, meetups, gatherings, and community events such as this one. uh when we say promote the use of Django among the uh worldwide uh development community and uh so One of our other goals is to protect the intellectual property and care about frameworks long-term rivals. And of course, uh one of the main goals is to advance the state of art in web development. Uh so uh DSF uh has uh uh

Speaker 1: this is uh uh Nonprofit it is being run by a board of directors. We used to select those every two years. Now we are in a different cadence. Like we select half of the board. every year and uh you can see the uh uh current board uh uh current uh director of current members of the board. We are super lucky today, I think four of us is here. Uh Heim is not present. Uh uh I'm the uh vice president uh in this term. Thibaut is our secretary. Jacob

Speaker 1: probably family name again is not present here, alongside with Katie. Katja, uh long term uh board member, and uh Sarah uh Okay. After like I finished the introduction, I'm hoping they could all like uh say a few words and share their experiences. Uh uh the second uh like uh important uh team uh I they're all important, but the second one in my list is uh fellows. Um I'm really, really, really proud to say

Speaker 1: that we uh we have a like uh great record of like amazing fellows uh since uh twenty fourteen. Uh like other than Burkare uh and team I had the opportunity to meet all of them in person and like receive their support in many ways. So uh Natalia uh is uh together and uh Now or later, I'll like you to introduce the fellowship program, Natalia , however you prefer. Later. Okay. Uh then uh we have uh all the other teams

Speaker 1: uh which uh make uh Django happen. Steen Council is the other part of the board of directors. They are the technical board and they make the main technical decision towards uh frameworks um feature. Uh we don't have Adam uh with us here. Unfortunately, Adam Janssen uh is one of the uh members of technical board. Uh maybe he drops by later and you can uh hear about him uh a little bit. We have uh mergers team releases

Speaker 1: team uh which I believe Natalia you're I

Speaker 2: mean both yeah Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Would like come over, maybe give a like a short introduction about those themes because I uh I think it's a good opportunity for us to like mention those.

Speaker 3: Okay. Hello everyone.

Speaker 2: So the mergers and releases releasers teams are different, but the people inside of it is very similar. Um the fellows are the in the fellow team and in the mergers and releasers team. The releaser teams right now, besides Sarah and myself, there is James Bennett in it, which I don't think has made a release in a long time. Um we have been having some conversations with Marius whether we might uh update the team so we have people more uh recently active with releases being involved. I'm not sure Marius if you have any further input regarding that or not yet sure above. Okay. And then the mergers are Sarah and myself

Speaker 2: and sorry, Claude, uh Sarah and myself, but basic basically Sarah and myself are doing the mergers. The merges are the ones that are have the final saying into what goes into the uh main um branch of the angle and whether something needs to be backported or backported or not. And the releases are in charge of uh grabbing a stable branch and make a release available to the public and and and and have the features of Octases available from it. Maybe you can mention a triage and review team. Right, the triage and review team, which is a little bit further down, it's a wider team. There are a lot of members. I don't know all members by heart Um but we are closer to maybe ten. Yeah. So

Speaker 2: the Triagan Review team is a team that is in charge of uh Not the only ones that can do reviews on PRs, but their review in a PR has a different status in that it's um it's people that is more um um accustomed to the proper guidelines that are required to um accompany comply with when developing code. They have more knowledge about the framework and different parts of the framework. They have some expertise in a particular part of the code. They have been contributing already, so they have a level of trust that the DSF as a whole uh have in them, uh, into that an approval from them has a certain weight. And particularly

Speaker 2: The fellows have no extra privileges into what they can land. It's not like they can decide to make a change, it's just land it. We also need to have reviews performing our proposed PRs. So in order not to have deadlocks between the two fellows reviewing for themselves, we have this a wider team that they will also do reviews for the fellow branches in order for us to keep uh progressing and and and and and advancing the the work.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to uh uh save the accessibility team uh for later recalls that I think we almost have the whole team here. Maybe at some point we can actually have all of them here and uh have a quick like uh chat I know a member of Ops team, at least other than Natalia, is here. Uh like uh maybe again at some point we can invite you to stay so you can uh uh talk a bit about uh the old steam unless you want to come now and make an efference. You wanna come and say hi, Club Why?

Speaker 4: Okay.

Speaker 1: Don't worry. Mars, we will we we uh oh that I have you Whatever it chooses.

Speaker 5: Above the op steam, uh currently we have four members. and we are trying to maintain this number of uh members. What we are doing? We are maintaining infrastructure that Are behind uh our CI uh for uh Django project, uh infrastructure for Django Project. com website and basically things like that. So team is quite stable. We have basically uh the same name members for for many years. Uh quite recently Baptist join our team. Yeah, okay. Does it

Speaker 5: uh

Speaker 1: can you also

Speaker 5: Oh about security team. So security team is responsible for um Uh for uh basic checking security ports uh there we are getting um to Uh security at Django Project. com. Uh uh

Speaker 1: email address security , right?

Speaker 2: Well, Marius, Carlton, myself, uh Adam.

Speaker 5: Yes, okay. We have a lot of members of security team. One of them uh gave a talk yesterday about uh regular uh deno of services. uh that we are getting recently quite a lot.

Speaker 1: Okay thanks thanks thanks Marsh we we we uh we want you uh to do uh And um like we have a big translation team who is behind all the translation efforts uh of all the Jenga documentation and other parts of the framework So um uh then we have uh PEPS. So uh I don't know if you're familiar uh with the uh PEPS which is the uh Python enhancement proposals. I don't know which uh actually predicts each other. I imagine that uh uh HAPS uh came before so right okay So uh those are documents that specify jungle's governance and a major

Speaker 1: technical changes. Uh In specific Deb 10, for example, specifies the organizational structure and rules for voting. the the talk just before the uh lunch break uh Jake was uh presenting a new dApp uh on having um uh external workers uh integrated into the uh core library and you can uh uh go and read all that uh in general scit up repo And uh yeah, if you want to uh propose a new technical change. That's how we

Speaker 1: do it in Django. Next, let's briefly talk about membership. So Django Suffrade Foundation have uh uh two different levels of membership uh individual members and corporate members uh individuals individual members uh are appointed by the a sef in recognition of their contributions to the Giango Committee recently um me uh improved the uh uh documentation around our uh guidelines on uh uh what those recognition means previously used to be a little more like um uh have a more technical uh focus uh

Speaker 1: but we realize what uh like and with the feedback from the community. We wanted to emphasize like all kind of contributions, both like technical and non-technical contributions. uh makes what uh Django framework is today. So um there's an update on that. Please take a look and uh we can share on Slack uh after the session And then we have uh corporate members. So that program designed to give a voice to organizations interested in supporting and sponsoring Django 's continued development. I think we have the updated list. Thanks Katya for updating it.

Speaker 1: Our corporate membership. uh uh Jet Frames and Defna uh is our Platine corpor corporate memberships. Uh and uh um century on a crypt API uh are the gold ones and we have uh many silver corporate members and um really uh those corporate members uh is uh uh making us uh like support the community uh uh in meetups or in like uh jungle cons but also supports our fellowship program and all the other like um uh all the other programs that need

Speaker 1: financial support. So uh Thank you. And if if you're a corporate member in the room here today, maybe you can like you can see No one, maybe someone from Cultus? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh next I'm going to invite Stebo to talk about the budgets.

Speaker 6: Thank you. Um I'm Thibaut. I am a new board member as of this year. Um Presenting this on behalf of Jacob, who's the treasurer at the moment, just to give you a sense of essentially where your money goes when you donate to Django individually or as a corporate member. Our budget primarily by very, very large margin comes from donations. So here we only have donation figures, we don't have things like our online shop. That's something we do because people want it. That does contribute a bit, but donations is an end of the game for us. And one of the things we've been trying to do to increase donations in particular is having a new fundraising working group If that's your drum , these are the numbers we're trying to improve.

Speaker 6: And as as Chad mentioned, this goes directly towards supporting programs like the Fellowship So switching over to expenses, I believe we're quite a lean foundation as far as those things go. almost as much of the money that we receive as we can goes towards either paying for the salaries of our fellows or donating to grants or events. DjangoCon Europe that you're sitting in today, their travel grants budget comes straight from the Django Software Foundation. And that's something we're very happy about. We want to support the event in every way we can. They should

Speaker 6: use it that way. That aligns excellently with our values. There's lots of other events like this that are also more local that benefit from PSF funding to the same extent. Django girls as well very frequently receive events funding from us. We try how to we review quite a few proposals. We review on the order of two to three per meeting and uh try to understand the alignment with our mission. and uh yeah essentially give as much as we can by cast grants or the fellowship program. There are other ways we might use the money in the future. We've discussed hiring an executive director to help us run the Django Social Foundation Yeah, big topic for the for the year ahead, I hope. And uh yeah, I mentioned uh I mentioned our

Speaker 6: merch store. So definitely small but mighty, uh built with threadless Yeah, it's good for us. Not massive numbers, but if you want a shirt , lots of people love them and they do contribute to our mission. And yeah, as far as donating GitHub Our websites, corporate sponsorships, lots of options.

Speaker 1: So that's the uh uh presentation part and uh now uh we like to uh run a panel. Uh Let's first start with uh board members, but like uh I like to invite uh uh members from other teams at some point to the stage. Then we can talk like about accessibility, fellowship program and other important teams as well. What we can do is maybe do you want to first like introduce yourself and like share whatever you want to share today

Speaker 1: Yeah please please I wrong.

Speaker 3: So it is this going into the live session and The same this one?

Speaker 1: I am not sure. Um but what happens is uh the mic will uh the the microphone laptop. Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: Because otherwise it wouldn't be better to go there. So we I'm Natalia, I'm one of the Yango Fellows, as Chao already mentioned. Currently based in Uruguay, which is in South America. And I'll be working on a fellowship part-time. I'm also doing some finance work using Delho as my second part-time job. And I'm here with my partner and my daughter, who you might have seen gone and run. And I have used Yango since the very early days and doing volatilidad for different companies. And I'm very excited to be here. This is my first Samo in Europe, my first emotion ever.

Speaker 2: My first demo work ever was last year in the United States, in Japan. So that was really good as well. And everything has been lovely, so thank you very much to everyone that and the organizers particularly

Speaker 6: Hi, I'm Thego from Zat Eakin. I'm based in the UK. I'm a developer. I do open source for leading. I work on a project called BackDen, which is CMS based on Django for my employer Totblocks. Again on behalf of Topos and also on behalf of the Jacob Foundation as an as a volunteer for the conference and also a volunteer with Jack. So that's what happens to you, you get sucked into open source and the volunteering and event side of things and then you have all the hats. So yes, one of my most recent hats is as a DSF board member as of Just Twenty Four. Thank you for electing me. We have our members next to the individual members who vote for people they think. will make a difference as to how Django

Speaker 6: runs as a project. So that's really scroll. I think that's my introductions I want to say and do ask questions to our new call members, Sarah and I, if you feel like it. Personally I saw lots of potential with Django, but also I have quite a few frustrations with how it runs and how being done. So I'll try my best to channel that energy in the best way and hopefully that's interesting stuff for all of you to reflect on. Yeah, that's me.

Speaker 3: Hi, uh I'm Sarah. Uh I'm working for Playing. Uh I'm um new board member as you know I'm also doing uh I'm a co-founder of Jungle Space. So as you were saying, like when you're stuck in open source, you're doing a lot of stuff. So I'm also a member of the Jumbo Activity team. And um I'm doing Django since a few years and trying to do more since that's also why I'm part of Recon since we're doing Django. And um I'd like to help also to have more people in the community. That's also why we launched Jungle in Space, which is a program of mentorship.

Speaker 3: And something I would like to invite you if you have any interest like to mentor people or just contribute feel free to talk to me also Um, hello, I'm Casha. So I've been a board member since 2020. It's been a long time. I work for 5. yon, so I'm here on behalf of the company, but also on behalf of the TSF. and also as a volunteer for the Java Commune Europe and also for organizing the Jango Girls on Saturday. You are invited.

Speaker 3: I'm from Brazil and now I'm based in Berlin, Germany. That's it.

Speaker 1: Chad up as I mentioned, I'm serving in the world as West presence is December 2022. And yeah, interested. I'm living in London, but I'm Turkish, so I I see uh like uh Yeah, one of my has uh in the D SF4 is uh coming from a like uh minority group as like uh unfortunately there is only three third four Dutch people uh in the Gentleman Europe at the moment and none of them are coming from Turkey. So like we have a great convention, but like need some representation from uh the parts of the world that uh doesn't have

Speaker 1: uh uh the privileges uh like uh I think at the moment uh living in the UK and working for a company, supporting uh being able to support myself uh Well and also um I'm super passionate about uh gender, uh so uh like uh really uh want to contribute uh more to the community and uh yeah that's that's why uh really I'm really happy to and I want to do like more than I'm thinking uh before and uh as possible from the uh individual members and happy to stay here

Speaker 1: soon on sprints moving to uh forums from heavenless so like uh we have like like trust more art um And also uh uh before I did you say that that actually happened? Yes. Uh um yeah, and like um uh and like another big topic we have been working on in the last three years is working group so I I'm hoping that uh we I it didn't have on the same coming up soon it will be like having a more public uh announcements of working group at some point. Like we've got a slide. Let's talk a bit more about working

Speaker 3: groups if we have time. So Next, uh before having more people here, uh maybe we can give the mic. uh to uh the audience like maybe can like have one or two questions that you would like to ask the board and uh our fellow Anyone, no one

Speaker 6: I guess my question to the board members is no How can we empower well how how well I guess this ties into the workers groups idea, but how do we empower things actually happen? Because there's always a lot of talk, there's always great ideas, there's always energy coming out of the conferences And then we go home and life takes over and we don't get the change to it it could be case. Yes, please. Thank you. Uh I'll stop and hopefully you'll show. Um I'll be very honest, the board has very little time and there's only seven of us. We are mostly here for the business as usual and the long-term vision.

Speaker 6: Anything that you need to see happening within this year's time frame, we need to find volunteers to do. And it's quite hard as people get stretched over many responsibilities. So to me the biggest thing by far, there's two of them, there is looking for more money to accelerate the things which we can pay for. like the fellowship program and um the biggest thing we're trying to do here is work with sponsors a lot bigger that have the budget to fund uh salaries of employees. That's what it comes down to. And from the volunteer side, there's only the one thing that I would say we need the most. is people nominating more individual members to join our community.

Speaker 6: I think if you want to do one thing today with how to honestly our community is to nominate one person to recognize their past. their thoughts and make sure that we're aware of what they're doing. Then as far as I guess the coordinating side of things, there are a few things I think are also potential working groups to discuss a bit more. We also had a roadmap session not so long ago about things we would like to see change in the General community. I think having the bandwidth with maybe the board or the fellows to follow on those things over time go by a long way. That's something that I know personally and it's hard to sustain from the rest. So yes, money for salaries, more vendors, more volunteers, and things that we're working with to coordinate before we have at the moment.

Speaker 6: Uh maybe I can add uh two points and support one point. Um Definitely

Speaker 1: yes uh uh but from my my experience uh being in the board almost two years now uh What we can do fast is to test their community with their F Whats. As people mentioned, we unfortunately only have one heart together in a month and we sometimes work both like tasing. But uh it's unrealistic for like six, seven people to advance a like a whole community. So um I think one thing is like we we we we can all think about how how we can like strengthen our

Speaker 1: like forms as a community so that we can like have groups working towards some shared goals and then board can support those efforts. And I think working groups is a huge step forward. I'm hoping once we move um uh uh individual membership uh group to form. We will start to have more discussions with the like small group and then like make it um like uh turn it into more like community uh white discussions uh but on that topic like Please do get involved with

Speaker 1: working groups. We need volunteers to leave the efforts there. And second of all, like Like uh if you're here, I imagine you're already uh putting uh some I either like uh effort or financial uh input in CSF. So you're doing your part. Like all we can ask is to like just uh relate the message and like uh um help us fundraise more money then we can like uh have uh more more fellows

Speaker 1: and exit director like uh naturally then we can make sure we uh widen our like carefulties uh SPSF and like each of you as employees or want to market at some point uh I I always look when I'm changing uh jobs. If if like when I'm uh if my next employee is somehow contributed to the uh

Speaker 3: open source, not only projects but to communities that like really uh um makes me to uh professional that I'm today. So like uh yeah Why in two sound on. So I just want to add my perspective because I've been uh at the board since twenty twenty and when I joined it was beginning of the pandemic so It was a different time when I joined and it was like a new thing for me. So I think for two years we didn't have a lot of things. to work on even like hit offices, everything. Nothing was happening. So I didn't

Speaker 3: learn a lot in the beginning. And also in the in the past work two two years we had this change of uh directors. So there were a lot of people who were for a long time on the board. So we have we had new people. It was like a good thing. And I understand that new people come with a lot of ideas. They are like really excited to change everything. And I I think it's a good thing. So I I saw the difference between like before and after the pandemic and I think it was uh there there was this difference And I think in the past like few years, uh I think like one small example is like changing the conversation uh between the the DFS uh

Speaker 3: board members uh from the Google um The mailing list, yeah. She was slack because I I just don't know how she'll use like the main list. I don't know. But it was like pretty hard to have like a real-time conversation or even not real-time but async conversation like pretty fast. I don't want to write like a formal email So I think this was like a good thing to get more things done even outside of the one hour that we have during the like the month every month So now we're we are actually solving things uh before and async, so for me it's like a huge improvement And also the working groups, it's

Speaker 3: it's a good thing to get more people involved from the community. And also like raising money, all the things that we need like the helping the general call on the Europe organizers. So we need to understand what we need to we need help with and then get more people involved the the general uh membership uh members and yeah so I I can see like the that that's my perspective from like five years at the report Do we have maybe one question or are we going to voice? Our old fellows here

Speaker 3: maybe and may ask a few questions for you. Marush, Carlton, would you? Why do you pay as well?

Speaker 1: Okay, let's let's start with Pierre Marsh. Marsh almost step down and uh Two months ago. Still recovering. So I think it's uh it's very fresh. So uh how was I think was five years What was your five years as a fellow? Maybe

Speaker 3: I know it's difficult to summarize, but if you want to summarize your child as a fellow. Like hopefully with more ups and nons. Would you like to share that? No pressure. More offs.

Speaker 6: So I've been a fellow from 2019 to 2024. I sat down two months ago and I'm still on a rehab Trying to do not check things daily or hourly and trying to do not control everything that is going on in Django. At least no longer with this. So yeah, the the last time there's were very good. Uh I learned a lot. Uh I think that We made a big progress both as a community

Speaker 6: and from framework perspective. We introduced a lot of new features. Uh we now have many new members uh and yeah I think that everything is going well and I'm pretty sure that it will be that way even uh without me. Um so yeah I'm I'm feeling a bit uh personally responsible for uh for for uh the way how Sarah developed as a general contributor and uh

Speaker 5: I'm really happy that that she's uh next fellow uh that is currently uh working instead of me so that's

Speaker 6: Nice shucks, he's literally the rock which Dango rested on. the entire time as the fellow so um I'm a bit a year out of recap so speaking and had that little bit longer um to acclimatise that first period where I think the first three months I only slipped once one afternoon and found myself on track just answering comments and I after about 20 minutes I was like, no stop! You don't do this anymore. By the end, I was ready for a change. The five years is a long time to do that kind of intense ticket work. It's real work, it's hard. That's why we have the baby. But I'm absolutely certain. That without the fellowship program, Django

Speaker 6: wouldn't have matured past that middle age to what it is, that middle teenage period. It wouldn't have got there. And the fellowship program is the reason why. the framework is stable, the reason why it continues, and it's really important that we evangelize that to our companies and the community more widely so that people think, oh do you know what I've got my payroll, I could done it's it's you know hundreds of thousands every quarter even in a small company. I could donate a few grand to the Django software foundation which would keep the thing we built our business upon going. And I think we don't get that message out enough. Let's make sure that people realize they can actually contribute

Speaker 6: um cash. Um

Speaker 3: anything you want to add about the

Speaker 2: question? There's a question. Yeah, please. Oh I don't know.

Speaker 6: I'm just wondering for the fellows, what do you feel like the optimal number is, right? Well I mean no there's one full time, right? Two half time Put Fhemi Tanny day too much. Error sub thoughts of that

Speaker 3: Just to uh clarify we have uh one time and one last time I look forward.

Speaker 6: Yeah, one and a half bells is fine, but it doesn't give any spare time or any bigger ideas that we might have. If we had two and a half bellows , There would be capacity to take on maybe some more ambitious. Oh, could we improve Django in some way, type of things Historically, the fellows weren't really allowed to work on that, but I think that problem has been shown by PSF that we could take on another fellow and then the fellows could spend some time actually pushing futures. forward I think I'll be able to make a big change.

Speaker 3: In order to answer that question, I think I would first ask this to the audience. Do you know what a fellow does What's the fellowship about?

Speaker 2: Who knows what the fellowship is about I think I do. Okay, so maybe maybe I can try to give a short introduction and this is my view, I don't think that we have in writing what the fellowship is and what are the the duties that the fellowship uh includes so um there is like a list when when when we see the the for example when when manus retri retired or announced uh his retirement There was a call for applicants for a fulfilled role. So there was a list of tasks that a fellow uh someone applying for that role should be able to handle those tasks. So you will say, okay, those are part of the fellowship tasks.

Speaker 2: Yes, they are Um but there is no writing like a fellow is responsible for this um in in order to you know to answer whatever one half and a half fellow or ten fellows too, I think that we need to first decide what we want to do and what we want the fellows to be responsible So we're still working on that and to clarify that we've done the writing and there is ongoing work into giving some I was going to say formalizing the the fellowship world, but not in the in the law sense or in the pure bureaucracy way, but in order to give a little more context and be able to go to more places to look for sponsor grants

Speaker 2: or money from from from from people or companies in order to sponsor more work. And in order to do that you need to be able to explain what a federal does and what a federal So I'm going to give a short introduction of what's my view about the value in the fellowship, and then we have tried to answer your question. The Nemo Community is very big, it's amazing, is very um friendly, communicative, and they are eager to help in general. That's my experience. And that as with the humankind, collaborating, having a group organized to collaborate towards a common goal is super difficult. Because first you need to have them agree on a common goal and then you know

Speaker 2: work you to that uh towards that common goal. And even if you agree on a common goal Agreement means that each person thinks, yeah, I want to do that, but the understanding from each person of what does it mean to do something changes. So you might have two people in agreement saying, Yes, we're going to do this cake, and one of for one of the persons the hay is chocolate for short, for the other person is vanilla. And then I say we're going to work together on the scale that we want to have, but then have different interests or or different ideas of what the common goal is So having said that when you have a lot of people contributing to Django, they have all the energy and all the they are volunteering the work, the energy, the time, the electricity in the computer in order to

Speaker 2: do something. But the goal might be a little bit different. So I think that one of the main parts of being a fellow and the one of the most difficult part of being a fellow, I mean you might agree or disagree is To try to find this common denominator of how what is contributed, what we want to have, or what is a good way to uh steer that energy, steer that willingness to help into a common goal, something that also aligns with What it is on the other on the other end of this equation, let's say uh there are a given set of guidelines, rules we can say about how the code should look like, how the documentation should look like, what is important,

Speaker 2: what things that despite being great things like typing, we're not going to include in the AMOOC because of these reasons So there is a set of rules and and and and guard rights that say that we as a fellow we need to guard But we also need to govern in a way that we don't discourage uh people trying to come to you because there is a fact that the fellows alone even when they were ten or twenty I don't think they could accomplish what Lambo can accomplish right now with the community uh collaboration. Maybe you you disagree with that, but So if sometimes I think the fellowship as uh the respon

Speaker 2: the duties of the fellowship being two main ones housekeeping and and and safeguards let's say of of of the code. And housekeeping meaning you have all this energy of people and all these um achievables that are trying to be delivered and handed over, and you need to put those uh

Speaker 7: maybe shape them a little bit, put them in the right place, um and with the right looks, if they are on decorating a house or building a house in it anyone can bring materials and then bring pieces of the house to put to be put together but if they're gonna put together in in in not in the right way because when it is the right one in a way that doesn't fall over,

Speaker 2: that is my technical over time, that it doesn't bother leaking when it rains, and it doesn't start you all uh uh uh complies with regulations and all that that that we have those enforcement be you know Even as I said before, and to reach ideally a place where they're useful, but also you know a very uh harmonic way with the rest of what is already there and common. So with that in mind, having more fellows, I think it's important I think it will certainly be helpful. I'm not sure if ten But whatever amount we can have, I think it will break because there are things to do regarding review PRs, triaging tickets, merging PRs, which is a little bit

Speaker 2: different than review that we are then releases then mentoring these things there are some things that we could be doing but we don't do because we don't have the time mentoring, attending more events, uh answering uh user, DIY user questions on the DM user forum. Hopefully, uh Thankfully, we have members that are answering questions from the users because the fellows do not get any time into doing that because we have other things. So we try to my priorities is usually unblocked community to do things. But I can barely do things myself, though I will allow to do things myself So yeah, our fellows, I think it will be certainly uh we have things for them to do in order to keep on blocking the community and then keep having

Speaker 2: Mechanisms in place for this steering to happen perhaps more organically or more automatically or in more uh

Speaker 7: smoothly That

Speaker 3: we all have uh questions

Speaker 4: and I'll come back to you. Um may I ask a more general question about that? Um some

Speaker 6: years ago it was pretty easy to understand how Django was governed and maybe there were lots of imperfections in that, but you knew where the decision

Speaker 4: making lay and you knew whom to talk to and how things were done. Um now I don't really understand it all myself now. It feels that it has become quite complicated and there are structures and values that have been written describe often in it seems to me in quite legalistic language. And I don't, you know, when I look at an organization that I'm a part of, I want to be able to understand how the needs and balances of power in that organization work. And I reading the things that I read about different parts of this organization. I have to confess that even though I've been part of it, I don't really have a good sense of

Speaker 4: who decides what and or who to talk to in this kind of question. So I I don't say I feel alienated but from it and possibly there's a bit of an obligation on me to do a bit more harder work and try to get into it. But I feel a little bit of a barrier has come up and I wonder if anybody else recognises that or feels differently about it. Okay. How

Speaker 7: come best meet you? Um when I joined the world, uh I didn't know we what time science for and um and even now i'm still learning because there are many many things we don't know like I know that there are some stuff to do, but I don't know who I should ask to make some stuff happen. And I think this is something we we have to do like together. If you want to change something and this is also why we want to move to the phone because it could be more easy to to